Advice on Night Vision Gear
 

Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear
 

night vison? o'ya mean a flare launcher. :15_1_70v:

Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear
 

mortar Illuminating round:23_31_2:course I am just kidding

Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear
 

This one looks pretty awesome.

http://www.night-vision.com/moreinfo/ps_7b_info.html

but I will probably end up getting this one:

http://www.night-vision.com/moreinfo/pvs_4_info.html

Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear
 

I don't think night vision goggles are illegal in canada, however I believe it is illegal to ship gen 2 & 3 night vision products out of the USA.

Its a similar thing to exporting firearms and parts. The stuff is totally legal to import into canada, however there are serious regulations on the US side with respect to exporting. This has to do with exporting military technology.

edit:
The cheapest/easiest way would be to ship to a US address and have it re-mailed by a "friend" since companies don't go for that kind of thing.

Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear
 

Night vision gear is fun to play with, but the main survivalist use for it in SHTF is for poaching at night.
,,,,,,
And if you don't want to be seen (and people are close enough to SEE you) then you don't want to be heard either....
....So....
-you really need a silence-able weapon for that--and of all the weapons the first-letter-guy in the OP has collected, only the Ruger 10/22 fits that bill...... and he asked about putting the NV scope on his .308.

------

This concern for "engaging enemies with NV equipment" is sadly misguided. Anyone so equipped is likely to be police or military--and you can't out-shoot them. They have more people, more equipment, and will surround you and then you're done for. The main way to "use" NV against the evil government would be to use the NV to spot the g-men coming up your driveway in the dark, and then you would run like hell without firing at all. In that case you need to get away before you are surrounded.

-end-

Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear
 

Don't under estimate how many people have NV capabilities. While it is a very, very small percentage of the population, it will only take one guy so equipped to ruin all of your plans. I personally know about a half dozen and they are not even active Mil/LEO. Situational awareness alone validates NV, even if it only helps you to bypass trouble.

As for those who advocate flares and bright flash lights to compensate for their lack of NV capabilities....

:4_1_72::4_1_72::4_1_72:

Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear
 

i am considering this---pairing gen1 goggles from atn or yukon with a gen2 weapon mounted optic to gain the advantage if needed, defend or harass---any thoughts?

Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear
 

A weapon mounted NV optic is OK if you are in a prepared position and don't plan on being mobile. Otherwise, a head mount with a NV compatible optic on your bang stick will give you the most flexibility.

If you can afford a Gen 1, try to upgrade to a Gen 2, if you can afford a Gen 2, try to upgrade to a Gen 3. The difference between the generations is almost exponential. In the end, even a Gen 1 trumps having nothing though.

Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear
 

Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear
 

BX3----gen2 with a nv capable eotech had crossed my mind, but then started thinking about mobility option to flip up goggles, transition to better equipped weapon optic and keep the damage under 2500frns. but, then again encounters will probably be under 75 yds. problem is this is unchartered territory and it could add up quick.

Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear
 

also had concerns about cheek weld with goggles and mounting of the weapons optic all lining up without going bump in the night.

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By the time you go with a Gen 2 tube and an Eotech you will be close if not slightly over your price target. Any head mounted NV system with a NV compatible Eotech is good out to 150 -200 yds which is plenty. Don't worry about alignment/cheek weld as the EOTech is parallax free. As long as you can superimpose your reticle onto the target, you don't have to have a solid supported firing stance/position.

It all takes a little getting used to but once you go green (NV monochromatic color), you will never want to go dark again! 24/7 beats 12/7 every day of the week.:beer:

Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear
 

Bx3- cool, thanks. aways seems like i end up close to going slightly over the budget. any final recomendations on monoc, binoc, etc.?

Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear
 

http://www.tacticalnightvision.com/monocular.htm

I have done some business with Victor and have never had any problems. His web site is also very informative so you can better educate yourself on the topic. He also Mods at an AR15 site (hint) on their NV board.

I prefer the PVS 14 monocular set up because it is very light/compact and a single AA battery lasts for dozens of hours. I also like the fact that my other unaided eye can quickly adapt to a bright light situation if one should occur. Some people like the PVS 7s because you have an eye piece/image in front of both eyes but remember that 7s only have one tube unlike other binocular type units that actually have two tubes (one for each eye). Both the 7s and the binocular units increase weight plus the binos are usually twice the price.

If you go with a monocular unit, you can also have a quick detach mount for your rifle so you can switch between your weapon and a head mount fairly quickly if thats something that you are still interested in.

Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear
 

Spot on.

Also remember many NV systems take rare/expensive batteries.

Take your 2-3thousand dollars for NV and spend it on extra ammo. Then eat more carrots!

Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear
 

I have a gen 1 bushnell, nothing fancy but works well.What made me pick this one over others is its totally waterproof and it floats.

Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear
 

Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear
 

Another thing to remember about NV is if you use the infra red anybody else with NV in the area will locate you like a spotlight, as they are the only others who can see it and they/you can see it for miles!

Case in point, we go boating on a huge reservoir and fish walleyes at night and have fun with the NV when nothings biting. We can see the water cops out there using thier NV stuff checking out other boats before they actually go up to them.

Well one boring night I thought it would be funny to light up the Police boat with my IR.

The responce was immediate and they diden't think that was funny at all, they did everything but board my boat checking for beer bottles, life jackets fire extinguishers emergency flares throwable flotation devices etc.

My advice: IF YOU HAVE NV DO NOT LIGHT UP THE COPS WITH YOUR IR!!!!

Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear
 

Of course "BASICS" should come before any other optional equipment. Food, water, shelter, security (guns and stuff). Interestingly, I find that those who have NV fully understand the exponential capabilities (to include the few limitations) while the only ones who talk about flares, flashlights and carrots are those who do not have the capability. In short, the only ones who talk down NV (as if they would know) don't have it. Come to think about it, that same rule would seem to apply to body armor and suppressors as well. I'll let you all figure that one out. To each his own.

Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear
 

i will thank Bx3 again. and it was a useful discussion for my purposes, so thankyou. why do some here assume i havent already covered the bases you have thrown out there.ammo-i have more than enough to ride out what is going on right now. you can only store so much food. body armor ---check in the box, already,etc.,etc.... so why cant i ask a helpful person about nvg's...

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when did AA's become rare.? hence asking questions and i do pay attention to what is powering these things.jeez

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i am a lucky guy. wifey wanted to get me nvg's for christmas. i asked her to hold off until i could do some research, so it been a while. in the mean time though i steared her towards his and hers level3a vests. so don't anyone assume there is an imbalance. not perfect, but not doing bad ,either.

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It sounds like you are a lucky man on many fronts and a well prepared one as well. Everything we do to prep is nothing more than insurance. We hope we never need it but sleep better at night knowing it is there just in case. Besides, some gadgets are just damn fun to play with!:coolbeer:

Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear
 

exactly... got tiller for my birthday,chose over another gun, cause i'm tired of working my "small" plot by hand. at least i will know where my carrots are coming from...later

Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear
 

Most of the ones I pondered buying did not use regular AA's, they used some variety of lithiums, 123's or whatever.

I had decided on a D-300 but never ordered one.

If you lived in the country already, it would be a lot more useful to have around because your home is immediately surrounded by lots of unlit ground....-but I live in town, and even in the suburbs there's usually not great cause for one. There ain't that much darkness to hide in.

It'd be kind of like buying a 50BMG rifle--a fun toy yes, but it's expensive and I had a hard time seeing how it might realistically save my life, compared to a lot of other cheaper things.

-end-

Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear
 

The folks in Katrina, the LA riots and countless other actual SHTF events would probably disagree.

Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear
 

In either of those two specific cases you mentioned, what was most valuable would have been a working vehicle to use to leave the area.

The LA riots started on a Wednesday evening, and the power outage didn't occur until Friday evening. It is theorized that many people stayed in the riot area only because they had no transportation or money to get anywhere else (riots were near the end of the month, before welfare payments went out--and many people there did not own vehicles).

In New Orleans--by the time the power went out, many of the major roads out of the city were already impassable to cars and a boat was the only way to effectively get around.

In either case I don't understand what great value having an NV scope might have been.


-end-

Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear
 

Night vision would come in handy if you had to post guard over your property/store/etc at night.

They mostly come out at night...mostly

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Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear
 

And lucky for us, flamethrowers are NOT ILLEGAL! :ok:

Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear
 

Since you were not in either location, your opinion has no validity. Yes, I was in both. BTW, do you own any NV or is this just more speculation on your part? Good luck to you.

Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear
 

How about the observation that lack of NV goggles didn't keep many people in both circumstances from robbing/looting/burning whatever they wanted to anyway?

I said I didn't own any.
I don't own a GE minigun either, but I'd say (for a typical survivalist preparedness case) they're probably a waste of money too, and I don't worry too much about not having one.

The few people I know of who do have NV didn't seem to really expect them to be useful in any defensive situation. They bought them just to play with occasionally--just like Irons said: "...we go boating on a huge reservoir and fish walleyes at night and have fun with the NV when nothings biting...".

I tend to suspect that many "survivalists" simply collect tactical stuff, without a real clear idea of how they'll end up using it if the situation ever does get that desperate. The POLICE that Irons spoke of probably use their NV gear all the time--but then, that goes right back to another topic where I pointed out that a lot of equipment that works well for police and military teams is related to the offensive tactics that those teams of people use, and isn't nearly as useful to a single person trying to hold their ground.


-end-

Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear
 

NV is just another tool in the tool box. not everyone can afford every tool. you balance your needs and if you can afford it fine. if not fine. someone wants to come onto my property they're not necesarily gonna find me hold up in the house waiting, either. defensive doesnt always mean sitting on your can. would like the flexibility of taking advantage of ruining the other guys day first. the purpose of the op was seeking advice not a pissn contest.

Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear
 

A bright and final source o'light.:9536:

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them look like they work up lotta light. :shine: just kidin of course. :signs1:

Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear
 

I used to post on the survival threads, then I figured why? Same topics over and over, people argue with me, I've posted on this before but let me try again. Look at nature. Look at predator prey and night vision ability.

Night Vision

Cats give up the ability to see fine detail and rich colors in exchange for the ability to see in the dark. The level of retina illumination is about five times higher in your cat’s eye than in yours. And all those rods pooling signals from minute amounts of light allow the cat to pick up the faintest light source. Nonetheless, some light still manages to pass between the rods and cones. Instead of letting it be absorbed at the back of the eye, as the human eye does, the cat has a structure called the tapetum lucidum that reflects light back to the receptors for a second chance to create a signal. The eye shine you see when you shine a light at a cat in the dark is the reflected light that has managed to elude the receptors in both directions and is bouncing back to you from the tapetum. The end result is that cats can see light at eight times dimmer illumination than you can!

In summary, the cat’s eye is specialized to see in dim and changing light. To achieve this it sacrifices the ability to focus close up, detail vision, and some color vision. It is the vision of a hunter active in both day and night, enabling it to detect movement under any lighting conditions, to use binocular vision to gauge distance, and to aim correctly to catch prey.

http://www.cathealth.com/CatEyes.htm

It absolutely amazes me how similar using night vision is to having a cat's eye. Cats use night vision to aquire prey, avoid detection and stalk invisibly. To anyone who REALLY cares about survival and not just feeling good for now, let me share how I feel about night vision for survival contingency ...

• Do YOU want to survive?
• Do animals want the be spared?
• Do animals want to kill?

I say animals want to survive and in general NIGHT VISION is something mankind really needs in many real survival conditions. We are so less than naturally 'gifted' this way. Before fire we were screwed ... but predators today are drawn to your fire ... catch 22.

• In a total SHTF suvival situation, do you expect to be in a well lit condition? Is that because that's what you WISH FOR?
• Will a killer prowler or gang likely arrive by light? How many hours in a long night? Do bullets go through windows? Do you think you can light up the night? Light your home?
• Have you ever tried to walk a hilside up or down with no sight, blind? Across a stream or anything but smooth terrain? Walk through a jumbled building you've never visited in blackness of cover?
• Can you safely identify the neighbor's kid from a killer coming to visit? Can you tell a spade from a rifle? How bad is it to not see your target or threat or friend well, or at all, until you turn on a light?
• In a hostile area do you choose to walk by day? Think, deer, porcupinse, possums, raccoons, bears, cats, owls, flying squirrels, mice, etc ... they stir by night ... only the biggest and baddest, or fastest, or fleeting roam by day. In survival you are probably not one of those. Early man is said to have lived in a dark CAVE by night, smart with no night vision ... get it? Man is not nocturnal but the best hunters typically are.

I once had a small Russian Elf-1 I really liked, a 1x with a 4x reflector and optional long-range IR illuminator. It was stolen from my home.

Now I have a Night Owl NexGen 2X and I like it fine. Low power magnification is less disorting up close -- plus a dose of resourcefullness, 20 CR123A lithium batteries stored, should serve many or all of my potential needs. For a weapon I can just point a pistol while using a simple NV handheld in a pinch ... I'm not HUNTING but DEFENDING. I'd use the illuminator as minimally as possible... watch for IR lights approaching too ... periodic scans, if on sentry on2minutes /off10 minutes to save batteries...

I draw the line at being ahead of maybe 96%+ in America who will only FEAR BOTH LIGHT AND DARK at night ... No need to spend more $ on my potential night needs ... I myself will seek the deepest darkness at night (if I must) thank you. Good luck to you!
:bear_thumb:
What can I say -- except a Generation 1 clearly exceeds a cat's best night vision. Cats do OK at 'suvival' ... Nature gave the cat and owl special gifts ... a REAL lifesaver. For me, I will not argue over my night vision, sutures, antibiotics, body armor, weapons, NBC mask, geiger counter, SW radio, flashlights, chlorine, food, etc on and on... but the best animals get by easily on little more than the better night vision alone... I know what I know... But you know I think like an animal and a man.
:confused_ma::10_1_19: but i'm still learning

Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear
 

koyaanisqatsi, very well said. I have 16 years of REAL WORLD experience using NV/FLIR for both offensive and defensive operations. This is not a theory for me. I will no longer argue my point and justify the speculation, baseless opinions, I read somewhere and my friend has one and he says........ of some here. Fate favors those who help themselves. Good luck to the rest, they may soon need it.